Dev Update: Hidden Entrances and Randomized Dungeons

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    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Old/ current group dungeons will have entrances added to them. Those entrances will lead to a randomized dungeon that is one tier higher than the dungeon that lead into it. (e.g. T5 Deepwood Enclave will lead to a T6 Keeper randomized dungeon).
      Most dungeons will have about 4 possible spawn locations for such an entrance of which one will be active at a time. We hope to ease the grind in old dungeons a little.
      Is this a change in idea to the previous iteration of randomized dungeons. As before it seemed like they would just spawn in a zone somewhere.

      Now it seems like its akin to beta 1 dungeon blue portals - where you go into the dungeon and then find an entrance to go to a better pve zone.
    • I understood it like now we will have two things changed:

      1. Randomized dungeons will be added and they will appear everywhere in the world. < So read the #1 post in this thread
      2. Old dungeons will be transformed into a new dungeons with 4 entrances of which only 1 is active at a time, but I have no idea if those are permanent 'randomized' dungeons or how are they going to work. But I think they will completely delete the copy+paste dungeons from the open world.

      But I am not sure if my understanding is correct.
    • Wadefu wrote:

      Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Old/ current group dungeons will have entrances added to them. Those entrances will lead to a randomized dungeon that is one tier higher than the dungeon that lead into it. (e.g. T5 Deepwood Enclave will lead to a T6 Keeper randomized dungeon).
      Most dungeons will have about 4 possible spawn locations for such an entrance of which one will be active at a time. We hope to ease the grind in old dungeons a little.
      Is this a change in idea to the previous iteration of randomized dungeons. As before it seemed like they would just spawn in a zone somewhere.
      Now it seems like its akin to beta 1 dungeon blue portals - where you go into the dungeon and then find an entrance to go to a better pve zone.

      Kinda but the old Gateway Dungeons had a limit on how many players could enter.
      Those randomized dungeons have no such limits.

      glokz wrote:

      I understood it like now we will have two things changed:

      1. Randomized dungeons will be added and they will appear everywhere in the world. < So read the #1 post in this thread
      2. Old dungeons will be transformed into a new dungeons with 4 entrances of which only 1 is active at a time, but I have no idea if those are permanent 'randomized' dungeons or how are they going to work. But I think they will completely delete the copy+paste dungeons from the open world.

      But I am not sure if my understanding is correct.
      This is why we said that it is actually two systems.

      1. The first system places entrances quasi randomly in the open world. Though those will lead only into randomized dungeons for now we could have them lead into old kind of dungeons or even expeditions as well.
      2. The second system creates randomized dungeons. Theoretically we could use any kind of exit / entrance to lead in to a randomized dungeon.
      So for now the old copy paste dungeons will stay but will be enhanced with entrances into randomized dungeons. Just that only one of those will be active at a time.
      When a group finishes one of those randomized dungeons one of the other entrances will become active after a certain amount of time.
    • Will the entrances inside of old dungeons lead to the same randomized dungeons that the open world entrances will lead to?

      I'd consider making open world dungeon entrances and group dungeon entrances separate. I the size of fame farming parties inside group dungeons is larger than the small groups who will roam the open world to find dungeons.
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Old/ current group dungeons will have entrances added to them. Those entrances will lead to a randomized dungeon that is one tier higher than the dungeon that lead into it. (e.g. T5 Deepwood Enclave will lead to a T6 Keeper randomized dungeon).
      Most dungeons will have about 4 possible spawn locations for such an entrance of which one will be active at a time. We hope to ease the grind in old dungeons a little.

      Maybe this is a good time to also mention some of the other changes that will come with Oberon:
      • Logging-out in a dungeon will take you 5 minutes
      • Spawn-Bubbles in dungeons will only last 10 sec or moving 20m away from your spawn position
      • HCEs will have their missions changed:
        • you now need to kill about 80% of the mobs + the boss
        • to accommodate the different length of HCEs they have different time limits to finish them
        • we will make additional changes if necessary
      • drop chance for HCE maps will be slightly reduced

      BEST UPDATE!

      Lets go bois.


      clap
    • These HCE changes honestly look like a buff to me. To be honest I could already clear many HCE's within the time limit (up to and including 11), so if they up the time limit that just makes it easier for me in most cases. They take out the skipping, which is a buff, and took a lot of time where you got 0 fame anyway. If this will indeed turn out to be a buff, it will be easier to clear tier 15 maps and possibly do infinite level 15 maps. That's the way I see it though.
    • Log out option 100% understandable.
      Bubble mechanics 100% understandable.

      However changes being put in place since zergs diving dungeons 4x the number of a fame group are salty they cannot loot them.

      Why not look at real problems and address them accordingly?? Like why the fuck isn't hellgates the best fame in game? (not the 2v2 meme gates but 5v5 gates?) Why isn't outside/inside CV best fame in game? Why is it Anglia dungeon relic fame farm is one of highest fame. T6 mercia morgana dungeon is high fame. Stone top t7 dungeon skelly fame is shit.
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Old/ current group dungeons will have entrances added to them. Those entrances will lead to a randomized dungeon that is one tier higher than the dungeon that lead into it. (e.g. T5 Deepwood Enclave will lead to a T6 Keeper randomized dungeon).
      Most dungeons will have about 4 possible spawn locations for such an entrance of which one will be active at a time. We hope to ease the grind in old dungeons a little.

      Maybe this is a good time to also mention some of the other changes that will come with Oberon:
      • Logging-out in a dungeon will take you 5 minutes
      • Spawn-Bubbles in dungeons will only last 10 sec or moving 20m away from your spawn position
      • HCEs will have their missions changed:
        • you now need to kill about 80% of the mobs + the boss
        • to accommodate the different length of HCEs they have different time limits to finish them
        • we will make additional changes if necessary
      • drop chance for HCE maps will be slightly reduced


      Do you plan to do something about the A out part? I don't see the point of having a 5min logoff timer if you can just go out in 7sec and run away, i hope you just forgot to mention it.
      Glad to see those kind of updates being prepared though.
    • deadlyduz wrote:

      Log out option 100% understandable.
      Bubble mechanics 100% understandable.

      However changes being put in place since zergs diving dungeons 4x the number of a fame group are salty they cannot loot them.

      Why not look at real problems and address them accordingly?? Like why the fuck isn't hellgates the best fame in game? (not the 2v2 meme gates but 5v5 gates?) Why isn't outside/inside CV best fame in game? Why is it Anglia dungeon relic fame farm is one of highest fame. T6 mercia morgana dungeon is high fame. Stone top t7 dungeon skelly fame is shit.
      I can assure u that outside CV with the proper sized group and no one ganking u is the best fame in open world in the game
      idunno where u get ur numbers from but a t6 morgana dung is not better than a t7 skele dung and the t5 Anglia(with mass relics needed) is not that much more than a t7 dungeon
    • That patch will destroy all HCE´s.
      The most maps on lvl. 12+ will get undoable (even if you get 5 minutes more time to finish them). That you have to clear 80% of the mobs will probably make it undoable because some of the pulls on higher levels arent possible to do without dying or spending so much time to split the pull somehow up.
      If you want to push open-world-fame just increase the fame there or lower the overall needed fame to level his shit up (or just nerf the fame by 5% in HCE or whatever).
      But that changes, to kill 80% and the bosses, is stupid af.
      For example 3 sisters, its a pretty easy map, doable on all levels (but give shitty fame) and has some hard pulls. there it would be no problem to get the 80% of the mobs, but to do the middle boss on 13 or higher is impossible (because no one knows his mechanics and he makes you 1 hit).
      Stonewars too, at high levels its so hard to finish the map in time (13+), for 15 you allready need a insane DPS to do it in time. But if you have to clear 80% its impossible, even with 25min to finish it. Ah, the miniboss is at 14 not anymore doable and at 13 hard af.
      And if you really wanna remove timers hce is the only place to ff if you want big fame. Having unlimited time to finish a 13 fishy allows it too 7.2 players to finish that map or ff it.
      HCE`s should be more for the elite of the people, so to they who invest money and time to learn it (armor, knowing the pulls, the tricks on some pulls or mobs (like interrupts at fistful, or the ninja at the lumber chest on 13+)) and not for all, so a change is really neccessary but not in that way you guys want/do it. To make OW more attractive is a good way, but it is a bad way to kill HCE for that.
      Options would be to increase the OW fame by 10% or the HCE fame by -8.5%, decreasing the general needed fame (its a lot lol) or doing a lot of other stuff...
      And if you guys really think about doing that kind of stuff, let some HCE players test it and take then the critique (or not) because they are the ones that are involved, not the mods or "normal" players (and they have a idea what they are talking about and some experience in HCE´s).^^
    • Olyvia wrote:

      And if you guys really think about doing that kind of stuff, let some HCE players test it and take then the critique (or not) because they are the ones that are involved, not the mods or "normal" players (and they have a idea what they are talking about and some experience in HCE´s).^^
      Gatekeeper. By this logic we should let the people with the most kill fame decide the meta changes for PvP mechanics, the plot owners to decide how the city auction works, the GVG teams with the most territories to dictate how warcamp changes are made - Do you see that this can and will invariably be poised to be in their own favor? It's not even a morality question - their perspective of what is 'fair and reasonable' can be 100% genuine - that doesn't make it the best/only opinion. Implicit Bias - Check it out.
    • Olyvia wrote:

      That patch will destroy all HCE´s.
      The most maps on lvl. 12+ will get undoable (even if you get 5 minutes more time to finish them). That you have to clear 80% of the mobs will probably make it undoable because some of the pulls on higher levels arent possible to do without dying or spending so much time to split the pull somehow up.
      If you want to push open-world-fame just increase the fame there or lower the overall needed fame to level his shit up (or just nerf the fame by 5% in HCE or whatever).
      But that changes, to kill 80% and the bosses, is stupid af.
      For example 3 sisters, its a pretty easy map, doable on all levels (but give shitty fame) and has some hard pulls. there it would be no problem to get the 80% of the mobs, but to do the middle boss on 13 or higher is impossible (because no one knows his mechanics and he makes you 1 hit).
      Stonewars too, at high levels its so hard to finish the map in time (13+), for 15 you allready need a insane DPS to do it in time. But if you have to clear 80% its impossible, even with 25min to finish it. Ah, the miniboss is at 14 not anymore doable and at 13 hard af.
      And if you really wanna remove timers hce is the only place to ff if you want big fame. Having unlimited time to finish a 13 fishy allows it too 7.2 players to finish that map or ff it.
      HCE`s should be more for the elite of the people, so to they who invest money and time to learn it (armor, knowing the pulls, the tricks on some pulls or mobs (like interrupts at fistful, or the ninja at the lumber chest on 13+)) and not for all, so a change is really neccessary but not in that way you guys want/do it. To make OW more attractive is a good way, but it is a bad way to kill HCE for that.
      Options would be to increase the OW fame by 10% or the HCE fame by -8.5%, decreasing the general needed fame (its a lot lol) or doing a lot of other stuff...
      And if you guys really think about doing that kind of stuff, let some HCE players test it and take then the critique (or not) because they are the ones that are involved, not the mods or "normal" players (and they have a idea what they are talking about and some experience in HCE´s).^^
      This is an open-world game where there is a risk vs reward, where is the risk in HCE? None. What is the reward? Way too much atm, it's getting nerfed as it should, if you wanna fame go in open world where you get rewards but there are risks.
    • Olyvia wrote:

      That patch will destroy all HCE´s.
      The most maps on lvl. 12+ will get undoable (even if you get 5 minutes more time to finish them). That you have to clear 80% of the mobs will probably make it undoable because some of the pulls on higher levels arent possible to do without dying or spending so much time to split the pull somehow up.
      If you want to push open-world-fame just increase the fame there or lower the overall needed fame to level his shit up (or just nerf the fame by 5% in HCE or whatever).
      But that changes, to kill 80% and the bosses, is stupid af.
      For example 3 sisters, its a pretty easy map, doable on all levels (but give shitty fame) and has some hard pulls. there it would be no problem to get the 80% of the mobs, but to do the middle boss on 13 or higher is impossible (because no one knows his mechanics and he makes you 1 hit).
      Stonewars too, at high levels its so hard to finish the map in time (13+), for 15 you allready need a insane DPS to do it in time. But if you have to clear 80% its impossible, even with 25min to finish it. Ah, the miniboss is at 14 not anymore doable and at 13 hard af.
      And if you really wanna remove timers hce is the only place to ff if you want big fame. Having unlimited time to finish a 13 fishy allows it too 7.2 players to finish that map or ff it.
      HCE`s should be more for the elite of the people, so to they who invest money and time to learn it (armor, knowing the pulls, the tricks on some pulls or mobs (like interrupts at fistful, or the ninja at the lumber chest on 13+)) and not for all, so a change is really neccessary but not in that way you guys want/do it. To make OW more attractive is a good way, but it is a bad way to kill HCE for that.
      Options would be to increase the OW fame by 10% or the HCE fame by -8.5%, decreasing the general needed fame (its a lot lol) or doing a lot of other stuff...
      And if you guys really think about doing that kind of stuff, let some HCE players test it and take then the critique (or not) because they are the ones that are involved, not the mods or "normal" players (and they have a idea what they are talking about and some experience in HCE´s).^^
      I think the point here is to change the concept of HCE from "skip 80% of the map to get the map back, then clean a few" to "clear the map as fast as possible and get a new map".
      As you said some mob packs aren't doable in higher levels and having a balancing of the mob strength would be necessary.
      If you (or someone else) have time to create a thread giving precise feedback on what would need balance (and in which way), i think it would make it way easier for devs and might be done for the update.
    • You must have misunderstand the part:
      • accommodate the different length of HCEs they have different time limits to finish them
      • we will make additional changes if necessary


      So yeah, you will have to clear 80% of the map so skipsets are useless except of avoiding the hardest mob-packs. But it doesn't mean levels 12+ won't be doable by correct compositions+ high IP players. It will just take longer to do so, you will have lower fame / hour as you won't clear 5 bosses, but perhaps 2 maps at top. (so two bosses).

      But still, they said that randomized dungeons will be top spot for FF, so let's hope for it.
    • Thorn-Delwyn wrote:

      Old/ current group dungeons will have entrances added to them. Those entrances will lead to a randomized dungeon that is one tier higher than the dungeon that lead into it. (e.g. T5 Deepwood Enclave will lead to a T6 Keeper randomized dungeon).
      Most dungeons will have about 4 possible spawn locations for such an entrance of which one will be active at a time. We hope to ease the grind in old dungeons a little.

      Maybe this is a good time to also mention some of the other changes that will come with Oberon:
      • Logging-out in a dungeon will take you 5 minutes
      • Spawn-Bubbles in dungeons will only last 10 sec or moving 20m away from your spawn position
      • HCEs will have their missions changed:
        • you now need to kill about 80% of the mobs + the boss
        • to accommodate the different length of HCEs they have different time limits to finish them
        • we will make additional changes if necessary
      • drop chance for HCE maps will be slightly reduced

      Why not make the new dungeons be in the middle (random) of the map?
      I dont understand why having a dungeon inside a dungeon, best to just keep them totally apart so more choices for people to FF, by putting some entrances inside the current ones, you just bottle necking how people can get to them, in a sense making some guilds be able to police at least 2-3 entrances.

      1 or 2 Minute log out is more than enough, same time it would take you to log out in Open world, 5 minutes are a bit excessive.
      If you want to avoid people logging out in a dungeon and then reappering the 1 or 2 minute is more than enough.

      I cannot comment on how the HCE map changes will impact as dont do too many, but if you want me to try it out, more than welcome!
    • Drake_IronHeart wrote:

      I dont understand why having a dungeon inside a dungeon, best to just keep them totally apart so more choices for people to FF, by putting some entrances inside the current ones, you just bottle necking how people can get to them, in a sense making some guilds be able to police at least 2-3 entrances.
      I think the idea behind this was the random dungeons are suppose to be the best ff in game, But having them randomly spawn in the world makes them low risk compared to the static dungeons. By putting a randomized dungeon inside the static dungeon there allowing the high end fame farm groups who risk a lot to continue to have the best fame in game.


      Drake_IronHeart wrote:

      1 or 2 Minute log out is more than enough, same time it would take you to log out in Open world, 5 minutes are a bit excessive.
      If you want to avoid people logging out in a dungeon and then reappering the 1 or 2 minute is more than enough.
      You can still A out in a flash and then have a standard 1 minute log out. 5 minute log out is perfectly fine for people who dc or alt f4 out of the game.