Misc NDA

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    • Neu

      Equartus schrieb:

      Misc:
      • Base Max Hitpoints: 1000 -> 1200
        (This increases the general hitpoints pool by 20%)

      This paragraph is actually very controversial since equipment in this game gives absolute HP values and not relative.

      Lets say I have following outfit: chest gives 400 hp, weapon, shoes and hood all give 200 hp each. Currently I have 1000+400+200*3 = 2000 total HP pool. With the changes in question implemented I would have 1200+400+200*3 = 2200 HP - this is not general hp pool increase by 20%.

      So this really requires a clarification. Maybe SBI mean that these basic 200 HP will increase general HP pool across all tiers and all weapons/armors by 20% on average, but in such case anything that is above royal gvg ip cap will get much lower HP pool increase, around 10% or even less.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Zumzat ()

    • Neu

      KickinMACHINE schrieb:

      Movement speed increase = the best change ever. Im scared tho, that it will give an advantage to USA players with lower ping..
      pff nobody think wide...
      base MS would move "dire-BL-soldiers boots" gankers to next lvl
      the
      do you remember that sprint skills gives % bonus to standart MS?
      120% moving speed bonus?
      4.8 m/sec +120% = 10.56meters/sec
      5.5m/sec +120% = 12.1 meters/sec
      and thats all vs same mount speed...
      solo gankers like me would PRAY for this changes... all others - would cry
      it would be possible to chase eve WITHOUT bloodletter
      PS: all other changes doesnt even matter :(

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von kheeta ()

    • Neu

      Dagother schrieb:

      @kheeta mount speed is based on character movement speed so this change would also make mount speed faster.
      english is not my native language so sry if i cant post my thoughts correctly
      imagine gatherer is farming cotton and looking around for roamin gankers
      today he have several seconds after he see red name tag to mount up
      after this change he would have much less time to mount and take range not to give ganker a possibility to double dash+poison pot
      it would be much-much harder for solo gatherers to avoid ganks
    • Neu

      Zumzat schrieb:

      This paragraph is actually very controversial since equipment in this game gives absolute HP values and not relative.
      Lets say I have following outfit: chest gives 400 hp, weapon, shoes and hood all give 200 hp each. Currently I have 1000+400+200*3 = 2000 total HP pool. With the changes in question implemented I would have 1200+400+200*3 = 2200 HP - this is not general hp pool increase by 20%.

      So this really requires a clarification. Maybe SBI mean that these basic 200 HP will increase general HP pool across all tiers and all weapons/armors by 20% on average, but in such case anything that is above royal gvg ip cap will get much lower HP pool increase, around 10% or even less.
      Bonus hitpoints on armor are derived from base hitpoints and item power. This means that bonus hitpoints on armor would increase by 20% as well.
      For those interested the formula for hitpoints on gear:

      Hitpoints on weapons on the other hand won't change.
    • Neu

      Equartus schrieb:

      Misc:
      • Base Max Hitpoints: 1000 -> 1200
        (This increases the general hitpoints pool by 20%)
      • Base Movement Speed: 4.8 m/s -> 5.5 m/s
      • In Combat Duration: 30s -> 20s
      @Retroman , if you will have free time , can you please explain why you decide to make this changes. It is very interesting . But i dont know how to react on it. Especially HP and MS boost. Why you want to increase the duration of fights, what was the reason?

      Hi, here are some thoughts on the adjustments:

      Increasing Hitpoint pool:
      In simple terms, this is a full loot game. And for this type of game, the time to kill shouldn't be too low. Preferably we don't want any one shot assassination possible in the game. Simply because if you are out there in the Open World and lose all gear on death, you should always have a chance to react before you die. Hence why we have been actively trying to avoid MOBA-style time to kill in the past. (sometimes more successful and sometimes less)
      Even if I understand that an assassin playstyle can be extremely satisfying on one end, I think for our game it is better to make it difficult to delete players too fast. I am aware that this has the potential to change the meta drastically across all fields of combat and useful items. From which healing weapons are preferred to energy management and the importance of burst vs sustain damage. That's why we will have various tests before we decide if we want to increase the health pool. Still I think it is worth testing this change and taking the risk in playtests, even if we might decide against it in the end.

      Increasing all Movement Speed:
      The notion that movement is rather slow in this game has been tossed around a lot. Internally and externally. The reason for the current move speed was always to allow for good reaction and make positioning an important factor in combat. However I think we can actually try out to increase the general mobility of the game a bit, to make it feel better and more reactive to play. And if this results in the game being more fun, it is worth taking the risk. Of course it has also the potential to change the game meta, like one example jumps, dashs and blinks will still cover the same distance, but players movement speed increases diminishes their distance-covering advantage by a certain percentage.

      In Combat Duration:
      The intention here is to give attacked players a better chance to disengage and swap spells (for instance in a dungeon dive). And also give solo players a better chance of survival against a small group by killing one target, then kiting back and have the health restoration kicking in faster. Lastly it is also more convenient and 20s is still a long enough time to not get triggered while a fight is going on.

      Lastly, all these things are currently tested and still have to pass multiple external playtests before they could hit live.

      Cheers,
      Retro
    • Neu

      @Retroman

      As long as there is a clear vision and direction of what you want, I would like to approve and encourage, 'minor' changes, towards that direction,(as opposed to drastic) and advise you to keep away from big increments that might alienate people. Take your time towards that direction, and don't make 'big' changes on your way there. Out of all the games I've played, and with the occasional exception, albion has got to be the one that the balance changes are with the right frequency and the correct amount of tuning.
    • Neu

      If the goal is to avoid burst and one shot assassinations, why not also nerf royal hood and soldier armor into the ground? Royal hoods allow daggers to do big damage to clothies. Soldier armor is worn by bear paws for their big damage. Even that would still leave weapons like galatines that could do big burst to multiple people at three stacks. Much easier now with the heroic cleave changes.

      That said, leather armors in general could use some love.
    • Neu

      Retroman schrieb:

      Hi, here are some thoughts on the adjustments:
      First , i want to say thank you for making dialog between players and you as combat designer. It is very important , especially when such huge changes are going to be tested.
      --------------------------------------------------------

      Retroman schrieb:

      Increasing Hitpoint pool:

      In simple terms, this is a full loot game. And for this type of game, the time to kill shouldn't be too low. Preferably we don't want any one shot assassination possible in the game. Simply because if you are out there in the Open World and lose all gear on death, you should always have a chance to react before you die. Hence why we have been actively trying to avoid MOBA-style time to kill in the past. (sometimes more successful and sometimes less)
      Even if I understand that an assassin playstyle can be extremely satisfying on one end, I think for our game it is better to make it difficult to delete players too fast.
      Success of oneshot builds in team/solo fights depends on your and enemy position and knowledge. Even now , it can be countered (IN MANY WAYS, and there is always enough time to react) depending of what kind of build you have as a killer.

      1. To be clear - i am using oneshot build too , and im not trying to defend myself. This change will not affect me at all. I will keep deleting people , in same way and speed as i was doing it before, because 80% of my kills were "overkills" ,which means that i was dealing damage much more than enemy Max Hp. You can avoid it , as a a victim by outplaying/using counter builds, and this 20% hp would not save you. It is already balanced in my opinion.
      I think you know what kind of build i am using , with stun lock. There is one remark, not along time ago - i was typing about how strong new Demon cape is on stun-lock builds(not only my). When you can kill any cloth - merc jacket user with Martlock Cape in 3-4 seconds of stunlock , with 0 stacks of soldier armor.
      There are few more new builds , after you add this new cape , that can delete players in few seconds during disable. This kind of builds will not be affected by this HP buff at all. And i am talking about solo , imagine if any ally will help you with any spell or hit. Your target will die anyway, if he or hes teammates would not react in time.
      2. Second type of oneshot builds. Pair daggers / crossbow / Death givers. Only this type of one shot builds will be affected by this changes allot. BUT only solo and 2v2 fights. In other circumstances where groups of people are fighting each other, it will not be a big problem , when you will need a little assist. If we talk about solo, yes you would probably kill that possibility - because you will not be able to make combo one more time in short period, after enemy will pop up saves/kite you till your death. Such builds are always a risk.
      3.Third type of of one shot builds. AOE oneshot build. Galatines setup. And that is the most interesting in my opinion. Galatines will be much more effective due to this incoming HP boost, if we compare to other weapons - which
      have static damage. This weapon will be over others in many ways, especially when you focus on team fights and incoming changes on AOE Q. It is unneeded extreme buff.
      4. Forth type of "oneshot" builds - is "permanent" invisibility with Death givers. This build is very unique , and its all about kiting your enemy with high DMG E burst. According to its low cd , you can torment your target for a long time with almost no mana lost. And again it could be countered/outplay even now. HP boost to enemy will not affect it at all in my opinion in team fights. It will be still depends on skill/position/tactic
      But if we talk about solo, yes it would affect it a bit - your enemy will have few seconds more leave and react.

      My whole point is , that you will limit some setups/situations, some will be not affected at all , and some will be boosted. Lets take a look.
      First -This all setups are expensive and very expensive.
      Second - It require special tactic , and do not accept any mistakes.
      Third - It can be countered even now , if you have enough game experience.

      My rhetoric question, for what? What kind of consequence it will bring to the game style/setups that are not using assassination globally? Does it worth it, will you able to solve one shot possibility? - My answer is no , it is not a solution. And it will bring lots of other problems, lets take a look.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------


      Retroman schrieb:

      I am aware that this has the potential to change the meta drastically across all fields of combat and useful items. From which healing weapons are preferred to energy management and the importance of burst vs sustain damage. That's why we will have various tests before we decide if we want to increase the health pool. Still I think it is worth testing this change and taking the risk in playtests, even if we might decide against it in the end.
      That's what i was talking about, it will change meta drastically. Here is the short list of what will be changed
      - Healing potion +cloth setups or other armors will be more effective.
      - Giant buff (from boots and potion ) will be more effective in small scale fights.
      - All healing with % will be much more effective. It will drastically change solo/small group pvp.
      - Sandwich buff will be much stronger. Tanks will get more sustain , so most of team fights will be much more longer,damage on most of the spells are static
      - Mana amount will be the same, it will affect healers and long fights tactic.
      - Weapons with HP % reduction or damage will be much stronger.

      And it is only the obvious changes, lets talks about others.
      - Small scale pvp. Right now if you fight alone vs 2 man you can outplay them , or if your group is smaller. After HP boost , you will have less chances to outplay the enemy with skill/setup/environment. Even if you will have bonus 20% hp too. It will be still possible , but much harder. When game encourages zergs over smaller amount of players, its not good direction in my opinion.
      ---------------------------------------------------------------

      Retroman schrieb:



      Increasing all Movement Speed:
      The notion that movement is rather slow in this game has been tossed around a lot. Internally and externally. The reason for the current move speed was always to allow for good reaction and make positioning an important factor in combat. However I think we can actually try out to increase the general mobility of the game a bit, to make it feel better and more reactive to play. And if this results in the game being more fun, it is worth taking the risk. Of course it has also the potential to change the game meta, like one example jumps, dashs and blinks will still cover the same distance, but players movement speed increases diminishes their distance-covering advantage by a certain percentage.
      You will increase base move speed. How it will affect game in my opinion.
      - Projectile speed will be the same, i will be much easier to avoid it , even now it is possible and easy to do it. But my fear is focused on ping. Servers are in USA. Most of the player base are not Americans with good/acceptable ping. So what will be if you increase the game dynamic? It might be a disaster. I want you to think about this, it is very important!
      - Second what i want to talk about is small scale pvp/gangs. It will be much easier to get closer to your victim while he is gathering/fighting mobs. While you react , you might be dead.I am exaggerate a bit , but it is true.
      - Aoe spell like guys were talking about higher Like Aoe Fire/cold blast spells. It will be much easier to avoid them too. So making them more weaker.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------

      Retroman schrieb:



      In Combat Duration:
      The intention here is to give attacked players a better chance to disengage and swap spells (for instance in a dungeon dive). And also give solo players a better chance of survival against a small group by killing one target, then kiting back and have the health restoration kicking in faster. Lastly it is also more convenient and 20s is still a long enough time to not get triggered while a fight is going on.
      Fair enough, cant say anything about it.
      ----------------------------------------------------------------

      Lets summarize, we have already good working game mechanic. Such drastically changes might be catastrophically in my subjective opinion. I dont want to escalate situation, but its not a good time to implement such changes. Just wait a bit , dont rush please.

      Im very grateful you @Retroman for your work. But right now we need only combat armor/weapon balance and more game content.


      Cheers,
      Equart
      Youtube/Equart
    • Neu

      • Base Max Hitpoints: 1000 -> 1200
        (This increases the general hitpoints pool by 20%)
      The max hitpoints are going to help everybody in terms of general survivability.
      I agree with the idea of avoiding instant-kills and drawing out pvp battles.
      The biggest benefit is going to be to tanks, a huge buff.
      This game change will also force DPS builds to compensate for long-term dps rather than short-burst.
      Another positive aspect. This is a great game change IMO.


      • Base Movement Speed: 4.8 m/s -> 5.5 m/s
      The increased move speed is going to change the game as well.
      Unfortunately, this is a huge buff to gankers and those trying to dismount.
      Because Mounts are not getting a speed buff. This is going to be the biggest impact.

      The next biggest aspect of this change is engaging and disengaging combat, running into or away from battle.
      With this movement speed increase, it will be easier for players to run out of a fight or into.
      It will be more difficult for "skill shots" and AOE targeting. Players will be able to move through a choke much faster.

      Unfortunately, this is a big nerf to Holy healers and all other players who must use cast-time spells or stuck channels.
      It's a big buff to Nature who can easily heal on the move, and perhaps Cursed/Bow players, anybody who kites.
      It will also be a buff to Bloodletters who can now, very easily catch a mounted player (without a mount speed buff to compare).


      • In Combat Duration: 30s -> 20s
      Like with the Movement-Speed buff, players can now exit battle (in PVE as well) and flee much easier.
      I like this change because it allows for more general survivability in the game, also now, the potential to switch gear mid-combat.