Piddle Co. - Merchantilism: Pros vs Cons?

    • Price check Halberd 8.3MP

      Pekuses wrote:

      Price check Halberd 8.3MP
      TLDR:Between 25-32M, but sometimes between 18-20M to. Sometimes even less if you need the money.

      This is a pretty common type of question asked in AO, and almost all MMOs, nearly constantly. How much is this thing I want to buy/sell worth? In Albion its a little more interesting because an item can exist anywhere in the world, and it's value is different based on where it is at the moment. So what I decided to do was just make a post about how I would go about valuing a specific item. Now for most items asking for a price check is as simple as going to the market and just looking, and so no one really has a hard time with them. So really the only things that are particularly difficult to assess the value of are items with very low volume and/or a relatively complicated creation/acquisition process. So that I don't get stuck in endless minutia I am going to assume that Caerleon is where we are and where we want to sell our item, and that for our purposes no other markets exist.

      So here we are in Caerleon, head on a swivel and looking to buy/sell our T8.3 MP Halberd. What should our first step likely be? If you answered, "Go look for an 8.3 MP Halberd on the Caerleon market", well you win a prize, but what you find is that there was 0 volume for them, and the single buy-order is the complete waste of everyone's time of 100k silver. So no luck there.

      What's next then? Well, IRL there are lots of things that, while completely unique, still need to be able to be valued. Real estate is a good example. Even two houses sitting next to each other, with the same square footage and same overall amenities can be marketed for significantly different prices. How do people go about valuing a specific property? They use "comps", or comparables. While you can't find an exact duplicate of the property you are valuing, what you can find is how that property compares to other properties that are similar, but not perfectly so.

      So what are some comps for our Halberd? Let's take a look!



      Fortune smiles brightly on us at the start. 6 different 8.3 MP melee weapons (There are more if we included anything made with 8.3 resources, but I am not trying to write a magnum opus)! All 6 are similar in that they are all non-artifact basic items. The claws are even specifically a 32 mat 2h weapon like our halberd. Remember that just because there is a listing on the market, does not mean that the listing is a good representation of the price of that item. They are For Sale items, that doesn't mean anyone is ever going to buy them at that price (Looking at you dagger, mace and battleaxe). It's a start though.

      What we find is that they are all selling for an average of about 1M silver per recipe resource, or about a 4x multiplier for the value of the resources alone. The halberd is a more desirable weapon in my opinion, but to keep things simple we assume that everything is equally desirable for now. So what we can sort of see is that there is likely a firm ceiling (high) value of about 32M silver for our Halberd. Now someone out there is probably already smashing that reply button to tell me about journals and resource return, and how this is wildly inaccurate and at best a large generalization. You aren't wrong, but the amount you are right doesn't matter nearly as much as you want to believe. Also, crafting is for chumps. We ball hard and roll dirty through the open world. We don't want our eyesight getting destroyed by spending our lives staring at spreadsheets and doing maths. So none of that matters to us.

      There are other comps though. In AO you can use materials (rune/soul/relic) to enchant items and so any T8 MP item is a potential T8.3 MP item with the correct materials. What's next to look at then?



      Other MP T8 Halberds... and...



      the materials needed to enchant them.

      For brevity we are just going to use the monthly average price, or current if it is lower, for the materials and either the current price, or reasonable approximation, for the Halberd. Otherwise we'd need a whole other post just to decide what each thing is valued at.

      So there are two MP Halberds for sale currently. A T8 for 7M and a T8.2 MP for 6.8M. Compared to their monthly averages (T8_2.1M, T8_1:3.5M, T8.2_4.6M) they are both overvalued, but the 8.2 is significantly less so, and it is only one material step away from 8.3.

      It's also a good time to figure out what each enchantment step is going to cost us with the given materials (Rune_3700, Soul_24k, Relic_130k). Recently the recipe for enchantment has gone from 3xResources in materials to 6xResources in materials. So we need 192 materials to enchant, giving us a 0-.1 enchantment cost of 710k, .1-.2 cost of 4.6M and .2-.3 cost of 25M. Now here is where I hear people say things like, "but I didn't pay 24k for my souls and so the value is lower for me!" If this isn't you, you can skip the next paragraph.

      That's a big negative ghost rider. Lets say you paid 15k for your souls, or even nothing when you got them from loot, because you can just sell those items for market price, any "discount" is made up by an opportunity cost loss from not selling them on the market instead. So in reality it doesn't matter where the materials/resources/whatever came from originally, once they are in your pockets the market dictates the value. So when you use up a resource, the value of what you are using up is what the market says it is, because you have the opportunity to sell it for that price instead.

      This option to buy the 8.2 MP Halberd for 6.8M and then enchant it to 8.3 for an additional 25M, for a total of 31.8M, is very important because it is essentially no different than if there actually was a 8.3 MP Halberd for sale. Both items are available for immediate delivery, and the only additional cost is walking to the Artifact Foundry. This provides a definite ceiling for its value. Any premium you would get for saving the person the walk to the foundry isn't likely to be very significant.

      So we have a large piece of the puzzle now. The most that an 8.3 MP Halberd is worth is about 31.8M silver. If it was worth more than that figure, someone would have already bought the components and made it. The bad news is that the ceiling is the easy part. The worse news is that getting the pieces just means you are sort of "in the game", but you have some ways to go to get S Class.

      Now we need a floor. The floor is a lot more subjective. How much time and effort the buyer wants to go through and how quickly they need the item, are just two of the things that can impact the floor for someone. But in AO, there is a floor built into the game. A sort of buyer of last resort. This buyer is found at none other than your local Elder Repair Station and its family fun for all Salvage tab. For those high brow folk who don't know about our fat friend who is always willing to give a little something of value to the humble man in the street, the repair station salvage tab gives you the option to exchange most items back into 25% of their component parts and also 75% of their Item Value (IV) in silver. So in our case a T8.3 Halberd will provide us with approximately 3 T8.3 Metal Bars and 5 T8.3 Planks, as well as a wopping 48.5K silver, a total market value of about 2.35M silver. Which is, well, that is certainly a number, but I think we can probably expect most people to try and do better.

      So lets start with the idea that we are willing to buy order either the 8.3 MP Halberd itself or some combination of the components needed to create one. For the 8.3 MP itself, if we knew what a good price for a buy order was, we probably wouldn't need to be price checking in the first place. its sort of the same problem. We do however have extended pricing for T8 MP Halberds of other tiers, and for the materials, so we can probably piece together some approximations for those. The materials are much easier because there is higher volume and so we can use values at or near the current buy order prices. For the Halberd part we will instead use the monthly average as our buy order. You may be able to do a little better, but there is no guarantee and there aren't a constant supply of MP items.

      So we have 3 recipes, a T8 MP and runes/souls/relics. T8.1 MP and souls/relics, or a T8.2 MP and relics. I'm going to skip the math and just poop out the figures for you. Recipe 1 costs us about 25M, 2 costs us about 26M, and 3 costs us about 23.2M. Could you do better? It would have to be on the MP component, and someone out there would have to be valuing their item less than the 1 month average. Possible, but not highly likely in a reasonable time period.

      So, we can now say with some authority, and evidence to back it up, that the Value of a T8.3 MP Halberd is somewhere between 25M and 32M silver. And that is what I'd tell someone if they came to me looking to buy one.

      If they were looking to sell me one though, I'd point out that the prices of materials generally reflect the value of their best use case and that that case is in fact enchanting relic class artifact gear. So you can't really just use fancy math to back that out of your MP Halberd. The materials are already spent and there is no getting them back! You should be happy to take 20M from me, but I'd rather give you 18M. Then I'll try and get 21-25M as fast as I can for it.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Other people in AO have been posting chat logs of themselves behaving badly in public. So I wanted to get in on the bandwagon to see what it is all about. I get whispers quite often and 99/100 it is a pleasant and rewarding experience for both parties, but sometimes I get another kind of whisper.

      From a concerned party worried about my immortal soul and worried that I am choosing the wrong path to walk along in this life. Sometimes it is because I was previously mean to them in some manner that I have completely forgotten about. Hard to believe that people would be upset with Piddle for being mean to them, I know. But, it has been known to happen.

      So here is me behaving badly. The fallout over telling someone in Help Chat that if you sell the Tomes of Insight you find in dungeons, that you end up with more silver. A clearly loaded and controversial topic, if there ever was one.



      Remember people, facts are circumspect. That is right. Facts are wary and unwilling to take risks. Don't ever forget it.

      Also, don't use words you don't understand the meaning of, if there is a possibility that someone will catch you and then further mock you. This was an early life lesson for me. I now make sure there is no chance that people know I don't know the meanings of things I say, because I just make words up. You can't argue I used the wrong word if I made it up myself. That's just science.

      Honestly, I am a pretty nice guy and you have to come through the door with your guns already out, in order to get this particular Piddle Experience. In fact he had attempted to engage me in witty repartee on at least one or two other occasions, but I was busy those times.

      That said, anyone looking to create an official Anti-Piddle Fan Club. I can provide you with names of people that I believe would be excited to join you in your little discord chat room, to talk about all the ways I am mean to you and you don't at all deserve it. Or how the pants I wear on my head are tight and cutting off the flow of blood to my brain.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • you write to a guy who disagrees with you on something (to sell tomes below the market, or even sell it):
      - "eat a d**k" (c)

      And then you tell us about the fact that you don’t like talking to some people?

      And yes, if you sell tome - you will get silver, its obvious, why anyone post things like that in help chat?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by iRawr ().

    • Piddle wrote:

      Other people in AO have been posting chat logs of themselves behaving badly in public. So I wanted to get in on the bandwagon to see what it is all about. I get whispers quite often and 99/100 it is a pleasant and rewarding experience for both parties, but sometimes I get another kind of whisper.

      From a concerned party worried about my immortal soul and worried that I am choosing the wrong path to walk along in this life. Sometimes it is because I was previously mean to them in some manner that I have completely forgotten about. Hard to believe that people would be upset with Piddle for being mean to them, I know. But, it has been known to happen.

      So here is me behaving badly. The fallout over telling someone in Help Chat that if you sell the Tomes of Insight you find in dungeons, that you end up with more silver. A clearly loaded and controversial topic, if there ever was one.



      Remember people, facts are circumspect. That is right. Facts are wary and unwilling to take risks. Don't ever forget it.

      Also, don't use words you don't understand the meaning of, if there is a possibility that someone will catch you and then further mock you. This was an early life lesson for me. I now make sure there is no chance that people know I don't know the meanings of things I say, because I just make words up. You can't argue I used the wrong word if I made it up myself. That's just science.

      Honestly, I am a pretty nice guy and you have to come through the door with your guns already out, in order to get this particular Piddle Experience. In fact he had attempted to engage me in witty repartee on at least one or two other occasions, but I was busy those times.

      That said, anyone looking to create an official Anti-Piddle Fan Club. I can provide you with names of people that I believe would be excited to join you in your little discord chat room, to talk about all the ways I am mean to you and you don't at all deserve it. Or how the pants I wear on my head are tight and cutting off the flow of blood to my brain.
      That entire conversation is pathetic and toxic rofl, come join arch you’d fit in.
    • Sgtbloodelf wrote:

      That entire conversation is pathetic and toxic rofl, come join arch you’d fit in.
      I hear that as soon as you can afford flat T6 they kick you out. So it is a non-starter.

      iRawr wrote:

      you write to a guy who disagrees with you on something (to sell tomes below the market, or even sell it):
      - "eat a d**k" (c)

      And then you tell us about the fact that you don’t like talking to some people?

      And yes, if you sell tome - you will get silver, its obvious, why anyone post things like that in help chat?
      I know this will be hard for you to understand, but there are some people in this game, many who I have never in my life exchanged a word or comment with, who don't like me or the things I say. So much that they lurk in the weeds. Waiting for anything I say that is even close to resembling a mistake, in order to pounce on me and tell me I was wrong.

      This specific person has been trying to get me to pay attention to him for a few weeks at least. But, this attempt was so absurd and stupid that I just had to see what was going on, mostly to make sure I was correct about the type of animal he is. The thing about telling someone that something they just said was "only their opinion", is that you are literally restating the obvious. Because anything anyone says that is an opinion, is intrinsically already their opinion, because they are the one telling it to you. So telling me that my opinon, was only my opinion, Was the same as telling me that I just said words. Which while accurate, begs the question, "How did we get to this place we find ourselves?"

      And the how is that this exchange had nothing at all to do with what I said, but was simply a pretext under which to engage with me in a battle of words and name calling. I being an accomplished warrior, and greatly enjoying stupidity and name calling, chose to forcefully engage to test my opponents mettle.

      Also, as you can see I simply paraphrased what was said in Help Chat. The obvious thing I said was in the context of a less obvious thing. That being a comparison of the relative benefits of gathering vs doing SRDs. A lot of people get a tome, and they just snap use it. But, I have found that by the end of an hour or two of fame farming, that you can have easily eaten up to 200-400k in tomes if you aren't really paying attention. Sometimes people who would rather have silver than fame, don't think about that though. Because it just becomes a common routine that you don't fully process as you are concentrating on killing mobs.

      So yes, there was context to what I said. It just wasn't particularly important to the matter at hand, and so I chose to use fewer words, rather than more words, to get a similar result.
      Discord: Piddle#7413 "The purpose of existence is simple: everything is fuel for the magmaw." —Jaji, magmaw worshipper
    • Piddle wrote:


      iRawr wrote:

      you write to a guy who disagrees with you on something (to sell tomes below the market, or even sell it):
      - "eat a d**k" (c)

      And then you tell us about the fact that you don’t like talking to some people?

      And yes, if you sell tome - you will get silver, its obvious, why anyone post things like that in help chat?
      I know this will be hard for you to understand, but there are some people in this game, many who I have never in my life exchanged a word or comment with, who don't like me or the things I say. So much that they lurk in the weeds. Waiting for anything I say that is even close to resembling a mistake, in order to pounce on me and tell me I was wrong.
      This specific person has been trying to get me to pay attention to him for a few weeks at least. But, this attempt was so absurd and stupid that I just had to see what was going on, mostly to make sure I was correct about the type of animal he is. The thing about telling someone that something they just said was "only their opinion", is that you are literally restating the obvious. Because anything anyone says that is an opinion, is intrinsically already their opinion, because they are the one telling it to you. So telling me that my opinon, was only my opinion, Was the same as telling me that I just said words. Which while accurate, begs the question, "How did we get to this place we find ourselves?"

      And the how is that this exchange had nothing at all to do with what I said, but was simply a pretext under which to engage with me in a battle of words and name calling. I being an accomplished warrior, and greatly enjoying stupidity and name calling, chose to forcefully engage to test my opponents mettle.

      Also, as you can see I simply paraphrased what was said in Help Chat. The obvious thing I said was in the context of a less obvious thing. That being a comparison of the relative benefits of gathering vs doing SRDs. A lot of people get a tome, and they just snap use it. But, I have found that by the end of an hour or two of fame farming, that you can have easily eaten up to 200-400k in tomes if you aren't really paying attention. Sometimes people who would rather have silver than fame, don't think about that though. Because it just becomes a common routine that you don't fully process as you are concentrating on killing mobs.

      So yes, there was context to what I said. It just wasn't particularly important to the matter at hand, and so I chose to use fewer words, rather than more words, to get a similar result.
      You could just say that you really like talking to "your fans".
      Because I have to say the obvious thing after these words, but:
      it’s much easier to add a person to the black list than to tell him, "eat a d**k" in an attempt to find out what kind of reaction you can get in return.

      But well, you r right, its just my personal point of view and i nave no idea what happens before or after this PM screenshot^^
      Or may be i just need to try say that to the guys who PM me^^ May be it is a good way to get more fans and pleasant conversations. idk