[Weekly Talk] Maces

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • [Weekly Talk] Maces

      Hello again, and we are on the 5th Weekly talk thread that we discuss about weapons and equipment’s spell, on how weak or strong they are, and changes to make them balanced or viable. Last week I talked how Cursed Staffs need some adjusts to be more viable on ZvZs and some changes, additions to make the “Warlock class” feels more like a warlock. However, I want to go back to the “Tank” weapons and kind of finish this part, so in order for that I’m talking about: Maces.



      General Thoughts

      Display Spoiler


      Maces are super good well around with the only exception I see is ganking. Outside that, they do well on ZvZs and GvGs. For example Heavy Mace, Bedrock Mace are good on GvGs,and for ZvZs you have Camlann Mace,and the blink air compressor build with Morning Star, or either Heavy Mace can even do pretty decent at it. At PVE Incubus Mace is one of the best (if not the best) Tank Weapon in the game, even if you need some damage the new 1 Handed Mace does some work. So, what is the problem Maces? To be honest, I think Maces are on a good spot in balance. Then why are you talking about it? Well, even that they are in a good spot they still deserve some attention, the “Tree” still has some useless spells or passives, and making smaller changes to fix that, can fully make Maces good all around.



      Ideas

      Display Spoiler


      Spells

      Display Spoiler


      Stalling Slam – Any Mace (‘Q’ spell slot)



      Current: It just remove/give mana nothing more nothing less, it seems useful but isn’t better than the actual other two “Qs” (Defensive Slam, and Threatening Smash), and if you ever need mana, there is so many better ways you can get it, like Lymhurst cape, Scholar Cowl, even Energetic Passive. The bad part about items that leech mana, or drain mana comps, is that they are boring to watch, and annoying to play against it. Therefore, it’s a anti-game spell, and there is no other reason to have this type of spell on the game.

      Changes: Remove it, and add a new spell [Ankle Slam].

      Interrupt – Any Mace (‘W’ spell slot)



      Current: I have never seen this spell to be used at all, not even for PVE, the root or heavy slam seems much better, so for me that’s the only useless ‘W’ spell Maces has.


      Changes: Remove this spell, and add [Static Disruption].

      Heavy Slam – Any Mace (‘W’ spell slot)



      Current: There is nothing bad about this spell, I just don’t like how the aoe is for maces, I don’t feel it as the cone aoe fits maces, it doesn’t combo well with the ‘Es’ like hammers does.

      Changes: Make it like the Giant Keeper mob slam, a circle around your character, so maybe it can fit well the 1 handed mace E jump, for example, and create new combos.

      Vendetta – Camlann Mace (‘E’ spell slot)



      Current: This Mace looks so amazing, but is very different from what the spell does (because is bad). I have seen some people run builds, and how they play with it, and the game style is interesting but the spell itself is just too weak for a Relic Weapon. All the other weapons that has the ranged crowd control like Soulscythes and Grovekeepers, and both being super good and “countered” by Knight Helmets and mercenary hood, respectively. The spell fits the ranged engage/follow up weapon balance that have been talked on other threads, but it just bad because it stop on the first enemy hit. Soulscythes already goes through all enemies why Camlann shouldn’t?

      Changes: The spell shouldn’t stop at the first enemy hit, it should pass all enemies and pull everyone, maybe increasing the delaying time for the pull also, or it pass through all enemies and instead of pulling everyone it roots, but it definitely need some tweaks.

      Deep Leap – One Handed Mace (‘E’ spell slot)



      Current: We all know the damage of this weapon is bad right now, so it needs something more than just damage to be better, and I believe that increasing the damage cap isn’t the right way.

      Changes: Does damage and slow enemies hit. Well if not a slow, a root, a stun, a knock up, on it then if it is just damage, can move it to the ‘W’ spell slot, because right now is just mediocre.

      Force of Nature – Bedrock Mace (‘E’ spell slot)



      Current: This spell was changed recently; and I wish to say that this spell was good but that’s not the truth. It has weird interactions with his knockback, but it just looks wacky, I’ve seen some teams using it and being successful with it, but still thinking this spell just look too much outside the atmosphere and the design.

      Changes: Charge in a straight-line with your mace knocking everyone in the way (so it keep the knockback mechanic and I like it) slamming your mace into the ground at the end of the charge stunning everyone around (or if you hit a structure). Some people going to say “Why you adding a stun to maces? That’s hammers main thing”, and all I can say, hammers have root, slow, and stun spells, quarterstaffs have slow, stun and root spells, why maces can’t have the same? Balance my friend.

      New spells

      • Ankle Breaker – (‘Q’ spell slot)
      Swing your Mace around you, all targets hit get their movement speed reduced.

      Explanation: Hammers and Quarterstaffs have both slow spell on their ‘Qs’, while maces still have none. Would be interesting to have a slow spell on maces also, that might help maces on ganking. I know, maces shouldn’t be a ganking weapon, but that’s the intention of a sandbox game, players can have the option to gank with maces if that’s their main weapon they like).

      • Static Disruption – (‘W’ spell slot)
      Slam your mace into the ground, targets around you get paralyzed (stunned) for ‘x’ seconds, they also get static debuff (target can’t cast or channel any spells for ‘x’ seconds).

      Explanation: I just think this can combo well with the 1 handed hammer, but also gives more different playstyle for maces rather than just the root on its ‘W’.



      Passives

      Display Spoiler




      Maces have the same situation for passives as hammers, the only passive I can see being useless is the Life Leech, so it can be replaced with the same as the hammers ones.

      Runic Mace (new passive)

      After 5 normal attacks, your next attack will do magic damage bonus and slow 20% of target move speed for 3 seconds.

      Iron Skin (new passive)


      After 4 normal attacks, you gain ‘x’ resistances for 3 seconds.





      Conclusion

      Display Spoiler


      Well, that is all for now. I didn’t had a lot of ideas for maces, not only because I wasn’t creative enough, but also maces are pretty good spot right now. The only issue as I said is different playstyles, there is only 2 styles at moment and that is the root or air compressor (where the air compressor you can only see for the blink morning start build). So my ideas or changes for maces is just to help maces to develop new ways to play, and make the not useful maces spells have smaller tweaks that can make their playstyle more stronger. I hope you understand all the ideas and if you didn’t or have different opinion let me now on this post, see you on the next week 0>.





      Past Threads

    • Maybe camlann pulls to the last person hit? There has to be someway of deciding a target.
      But you also have the Knights helm issue. Soulscythe has a slow effect that even knight helm can’t save you from. Grove can’t be stopped by windwalls etc, only shortened stun by cleanses(even if unsuccessful you’ve wasted cleanses) maybe if camlann had an unavoidable 2ndary effect? like maybe it roots for 2s everyone in the aoe? So everyone still is effected but a root is pretty light since you can still use spells while rooted.

      I don’t rly like an aoe version of Hammers Bash Knees. as I said in hammer thread I’m prefer the strict roles of hammers stun/slow and mages root/silence. Since maces are in such a good spot and a new Q was given to them. I don’t see a reason to revamp a Q, and thematically, imo, stuns aren’t fitting:
    • owensssss wrote:

      Maybe camlann pulls to the last person hit? There has to be someway of deciding a target.
      But you also have the Knights helm issue. Soulscythe has a slow effect that even knight helm can’t save you from. Grove can’t be stopped by windwalls etc, only shortened stun by cleanses(even if unsuccessful you’ve wasted cleanses) maybe if camlann had an unavoidable 2ndary effect? like maybe it roots for 2s everyone in the aoe? So everyone still is effected but a root is pretty light since you can still use spells while rooted.
      Yea, like Camlann definitely needs something more to it, it just dont feel good enough, like the morning start build is 10x better than the actual Camlann. It need something more for sure.

      owensssss wrote:

      I don’t rly like an aoe version of Hammers Bash Knees. as I said in hammer thread I’m prefer the strict roles of hammers stun/slow and mages root/silence. Since maces are in such a good spot and a new Q was given to them. I don’t see a reason to revamp a Q, and thematically, imo, stuns aren’t fitting:

      I mean would be a good reason if that was the way they were going with the changes, but every time they rework a spell, they put spells that the same "class" has it. There is the thing I think about balancing weapons/items, when we talk about balancing something you can think of literal balance, where you can either balance the weight of them by different type but same quantity or similar type and same quantity. For example you can have three different Qs and they all pretty good, but all those other 3 Qs from other weapon has to be good too to create a balance, meaning they are all different spells from each other. On the other hand and that one is easier to balance, is for you to have the same type of spells, and just balance the quantity of good ones, if they are similar to each other you dont break the balance between them, is easier to adjust and balance the game around, but that just how I personally think about changes. Not sure if I could explain exactly my point but just saying that hammer cant have this and maces cant have that, just create unique useless spells, and a example of that is the Stalling Slam.