It either needs a damage nerf or other lines need a mobility buff its frankly got the best of both worlds and the openworld solo/ganking/gathering meta is getting super stale, I thought dagger line should have high single target dmg as a perk and the bow line mobility ? Its just so boring to go out win a fight or catch a bl dismounted only for him to either kite or just run away, After 12months being BIS time for a change... Asap @Retroman
They are indirectly nerfing it in next patch by increasing CD for W dash. Honestly not sure if this will be enough though. I'd rather change E to not affect all daggers as it's only BL that's out of line, claws (2nd most scary openworld weapon from dagger line) for example are not having same issue.
Don't They just buffed the dash reg. CD?
You are right I got the CD wrong.
Good Change although it nerfs some Dagger line items that could use a little more mobility
I can't understand the idea behind this. To nerf the BL they had to nerf an all dagger slot... wut? The irony of this is the BL will be the most fine from this nerf.
Oh well we will see more double bladed staff instead of claws i guess.
If people wanted that badly of BL nerf just reduce the range of lunge from 13m to 9m (even 6 if you want). Maybe let the mana cost on dash (w). That's an aimed nerf on BL without shutting down the other daggers.
The post was edited 1 time, last by Owlsane ().
Yeah they definitely needed to nerf the lunging stabs range, already with dash at 11m range its got such a high dmg multi target e with crazy range if you combine both the dash and E spell together, yet is meant to be a short dagger like weapon.. yet out performs bows in terms of range at 11m + 13m = 24m Range is just insane, all pretty much instant and Can cover the 24m in 1 second or less if spammed.
High Q Dmg with Resil penetration and Armour pierce check
Best mobility Of Any line Check
High Single Target damage Whilst Also having High Multi Target Damage at 24m Range Check
1h Ability to use Offhand Check
I mean its not even surprising no one runs anything different in openworld and is still very popular is just about every activity from zvz to you name it, the weapon frankly has it all and does it all pretty well. Whilst doing some things the best.
The post was edited 1 time, last by Asaroth ().
You guys are looking at it only from the open world perspective. This was a nerf to an almost unplayed weapon in 5v5, while there are a bunch of weapons out there that are played by every teams (and for good reasons). I'm all for balancing all aspects of the game, but open world isn't the only aspect of the game, plus, as said above, bloodletter isn't the only dagger. I am sure there are ways to balance the open world without nerfing unplayed weapons in 5v5s.... this is dumb.
1700 ip in order not to be nerfed is ridiculous, specially when you consider the low IP cap of Crystal gvgs, which makes it impossible to reach 1700...
The post was edited 4 times, last by BobbyOrr ().
Basicaly the nerf did nothing to the bloodletter. Still see ganksquad with a majority of BL still doing their work and still have room to escape quite easily. You just put down all other daggers (which is way less used than BL)
Just some data to support my point. I've tested with my GM (he's a BL one trick max specs on it) and other buds that plays dagger. Basically he has 9s cd on dash after the nerf (7s before the nerf) This is nothing for the blodletter but for other daggers it's 12s cd (8.5s before the nerf) and that some huge change when you think about the fact that they just have one dash.
This nerf is a complete failure. It doesn't solve the "issue" pointed by people yet it makes other daggers way difficult to use. Next time just nerf e from the specific weapon. Thanks to the whinners, SBI made 3 friends convert to BL one trick (they used to play other daggers than bloodletter)
The post was edited 2 times, last by Owlsane: Yea it's 11m who cares that's not the main discussion here ().
Even with the Nerf to "Dash" Its really only nerfed the Gatherers in a way as most would have low spec/ip to compete with the gankers making them have a far longer cd , Not too mention the whole issue was a ganker or pack could just dismount ontop of you wait the 3 sec cd.. then F (Movement boots) dash - E - Poison then game over, I think the blood letter e needed a range nerf more so than increasing the CD, This would make it much harder for them to catch a mount so easily with no CC, Boring openworld Meta for the last 12months + Still hasnt changed. id love to be able to play another weapon besides Bloodletter but in the current state as a solo/small group you are severely disadvantaged, Once again the problem was not with the Dash, its the fact this weapon and Dash 11m- Lunging stabs 13m = 24m range Instant High dmg , Why have you not addressed this after 12months+ being BIS , why cant a low damage weapon line like Hammers or Quarterstaffs have the BIS Mobility but Weakest Damage? Bloodletter has High single/multi target Damage and best mobility dont you see a problem? @Retroman
dont summon Retroman for such a puny tiny , please. Bloodletter is fine.One of weps should be in its place . If no bloodletter, double bladed will come in its place and y"all will same complain about it
...gatherer with double bladed, running from 5 gankers with double bladed, will die just as gatherer with bloodletter running from 5 bloodletters
... nothing changes, but if they kill good wep (bloodletter) it will be sad
The post was edited 1 time, last by letwolf ().
I think largely people care about the "Puny" issue of bloodletter judging from previous posts, the nerf to dash did indeed quieten to community to see how it impacted,
Having tried it/seen it did relatively little to address most players concerns (Not taking bloodletter players opinions into account as they will be bias), yeh i dont like nerfs myself either as its quite common for them to ruin a weapon, i just think in this case the instant 24m Range (Dash, Lunging stabs (15 sec cd or less with omelettes and mistcaller) along with High Damage and arguably the best weapon 1v1 or 1v2 in 90% of situations (Helgufr Videos,kiting).
The issue lies i guess with there being 0 other weapons to play openworld if you wanna have a chance to either escape/Outplay your opponent and have them run off at 10% hp or anything for that matter.
Atleast if they were forced to play double bladed you wouldnt die in half the time (Double bladed is significantly less Dps) (You could also have a chance to escape if you countered there CC with a Cleanse)
Currently theres no way to counter a Bloodletter they can dismount right behind you have the 3 Second timer and still catch you to land a poison potion = GG, Id rather be chased by 2 Double bladed than 2 Bloodletter with no counterplay or risk involved, Even if i could survive for an extra 30 seconds would give time to run to territory/Lead them to your buddys in the zone.
You mentioned yourself in a previous post you enjoy crafting bloodletters Im sure for every 10 Bloodletter sold theres barely 1 of many other weapons showing its overuse. It should be a 2h Weapon if anything the 1h with mistcaller brings it into the basket of if your not running it you are severely disadvantaged in open world.
Im lvl 85 Dagger atm with barely any artifact dagger spec, Probably gonna transfer some more fame credits into this just to do some openworld solo/smallscale but it would be nice to know where he sits on this long over due OP weapon before i do so.
Its a classic if i cant beat them join them unfortunately.. tried other options but nothing comes close to match the High Single target dps/AOE dps along with being the best weapon for kiting/mobility/escape. For the silver price its arguably the best weapon in game and has been king for a long time. Yeah if anything the changes have buffed the open world meta even more which is why this thread is necessary. If you see 75% of Solo or small group ganking videos are all bloodletters and you read the comments players are bored of seeing such easy pvp.. even when the bloodletter screws up his 1-2 simple combo he still manages to win, gets kinda old and im 110% it pushes new players/veterans to either run it or only venture out in groups, srry for wall of text.
The post was edited 2 times, last by Asaroth ().
I'd lovr to see if developers deleted bloodletter/made unusable it for a 7 days, just for you see that going double bladed vs 5 double bladed gankers is exactly the same thing. You can survive/cleanse one double bladed (btw, there is 3 stuns and 2 slow on each double bladed: 1 stun from triple Q, 1 stun on W, 1 stun on 5th auto attack, 1 slow on E, 1 slow on first and second Q). You definitely cant cleanse out what pours from 2 or 3 double bladeds.
I have the entire other concept against mass ganking - "Horses Adrenaline Buff":
"When you chased by a number of enemies, your mount becomes mortally frightened of them, and gains extra speed and CC resistance based on number of enemies around you/hitting you".
That way, we entirely change concept and, as you see, dont touch every particular weapon, and we cure the initial problem of 1 vs many...
p.s./ developers even buffing Double bladed in next NDA playtests - you can see that. E range goes from 11 to 15 m . so it can replace bloodletter in ganks.
Soulscythe Mage robe hunter shoes demon cape. You're welcome everyone. Now u know how to beat bloodletter
Reading some of the posts people are mixing 2 things: Bloodletter and fast mount ganking.
There has been several discussions on the forum about both. About bloodletter something has been done (increase CD and added mana cost to Dash) which in my opinion was a positive change. I don't think bloodletter is overpowered, the only thing I would say could be changed it's taking the HP bonus and potentially an increase of Dash mana cost.
Yes, it's "best" mobility in game and that's why it's used so much in OW... but it's not the high damage some claim or the best 1vs1 weapon (there's other weapons better or as strong).
Now... about the fast mount ganking a lot has been discussed, and some ideas have been suggested about balancing this. Nothing has been done. To date I haven't read any developer answer/insight on this which tells me either they think it's balanced, or they are happy with the impact of it (more item trash/loss).
Some of you complain about things which are more related to fast mount ganking than bloodletter... what you do with BL you can do with other weapons ATM, and potentially will get worse when DBS gets an increase on the range of the E skill as @letwolf pointed out.
Fast mount ganking is potentially the most used method for ganking at this point... and though I've used it I think it's pretty lame meta.
Long time ago a philosophy teacher of mine taught me something interesting which was: "To evaluate if something is positive/negative (right or wrong) you should escalate it so you get some perspective... Ask yourself: What about if everyone would do it?" It's a simple method to get some insight about your actions.
Thinking about: "What about if everyone would fast mount in every single continent of Albion at all time?" Somehow I wouldn't like to play a game like that... since to be honest would kill completely the small scale OW content which is what I love in this game.
Being someone that 90% of the playtime is spent solo (guildless also) playing in BZ (mercia mostly) I've seen some negative changes over the last months... Mercia has less solo and small groups around. This is of course my own perspective which is subjective since I don't have access to data on player activity.