HCE access revamp: "Tokens" instead of maps (a compromise to encourage open world activity)

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    • HCE access revamp: "Tokens" instead of maps (a compromise to encourage open world activity)

      Yes, maps are expensive, but they arguably make it too easy to fame up while "never leaving Caerleon." Here's a suggestion that requires all players to venture out into the world while still giving everyone the option to run traditional HCEs.


      Remove HCE "map" items. Replace them with a "Token" style currency.



      Here's how it works:
      • Starting a HCE requires each party member to spend a certain number of their own Tokens. The cost increases depending on the HCE level. (e.g. A level-1 HCE might cost 5 tokens, while a level-9 might cost 25 tokens.)
      • Tokens are found in the open world, and especially in dungeons. The base drop rate should be rare, comparable to Tomes of Insight, but is significantly increased inside dungeons. Many tokens are guaranteed to drop from world bosses. Even players have a very small chance to drop a generated Token when killed. The drop rate increases in higher tier zones and dungeons. There may even be a small chance to find tokens while gathering.
      • Tokens cannot be traded or sold.
      • How the time limit reward works: Completing an HCE within 30 minutes will refund around 50% of your Tokens and permanently unlock the next level maps (and the ability to start at that level in the future, for the higher Token cost.) Taking longer will refund fewer Tokens, until 60 minutes or longer, which will not refund any Tokens. If you choose to run the next level map, it will still require you to spend Tokens each time. Abandoning an HCE will not refund any Tokens.
      • Tokens are treated like a currency. They do not take up bag space. When tokens drop from mobs, they are awarded to each player involved (no looting required.) When they drop from players, only one person gets to loot it (as a usable item.)
      • There may need to be a cap on how many Tokens you can hold at any given time. This cap could be increased as you unlock access to higher-level maps.
      • The silver drop rate in HCEs may need to be adjusted.


      So, players are rewarded for spending time FFing in the open world by randomly finding Tokens to access HCEs. Some players may even wish to farm the open world especially to stock up on Tokens. The time limit requirement in HCEs becomes less punishing, but initial access has higher standards for each group member (i.e. instead of one member supplying a purchased map for the whole group, every party member must spend their own Tokens and have already unlocked the desired map level.) Speed runs will basically allow you to run the next HCE at reduced cost - this is achieved by partially refunding the Tokens you just spent.

      TL;DR: Each player that wants to run a HCE will need to find a number of rare-drop Tokens in the open world, and spend the Tokens to attempt each HCE run.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Tarukun ()

    • Seems like a pretty solid idea.

      I wouldn't cap tokens if they're going to be rare though, to me HCE seems like retirement faming for players that already did their grind open world. It would be nice to be able to stock up tokens when you do your initial grind in the open world and then buy a hce set when you have spec and slowly burn your tokens as you have to grind a small amounts to respec for balance changes.
    • I would not change anything for part of the people (for which HCE is part of their activities that include open world activities) and would stop part of the community doing them and possibly leaving the game. I have no idea whether game can remain healthy with those player leaving (not considering pure player count only, as those people might be crafters, or gatherers, or market players, etc.).

      I personally don't miss people from HCEs in open world. Quite vice versa actually! When I meet 10 people with BLs on wolves in Anglia, I sort of wish 9 of them were rather in HCE at that moment :).

      HCE is nice way to get some of more odd weapons famed up (i'd really hate to use whispering, baddon or wailing bow for faming in open world, they are too expensive for their PVE performance and might not suit your composition when PVP happens). Albion forces you to grind up everything while everything is not comparably performing in various scenarios.

      If it's absolutely unacceptable HCE being the ONLY activity in the game then rather than forbidding it, let's try to find ways how to make other activities more appealing. Brain is a creature of efficiency. If best fame/silver/whatever is in XY, don't expect it to devote time to Z if fame/silver/whatever is what they are after.

      EDIT - SUGGESTION: To not keep beating old dog without suggestions, my suggestion is to seriously boost loot drops in openworld to get to the point when silver from HCE is lower compared to what you get from silver + loot from open world. At the same time I stronly suggest getting rid of hardly usable loot such as t2-3 and even plain 4 and 4.1 from black zones, where you need better gear than 4.1 to farm. Loot distribution should be based on difficulty and danger of the place - T4 dungeon should really drop 4.2 / T5+ items and rather frequently (not to the point when every member of your party gets overloaded in 1 hour session, but close to really).

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 5 mal editiert, zuletzt von ixxxo ()

    • If you want to encourage open world activity, you gotta make "living out of caerleon" the worst choice for a guild by removing connections to BZ. When its sufficient, communities will form in the BZ and engage in OW against each other.

      As long as caerleon is "best for everything" you can forget about good OW experience. There's no difference between HCE carebears and OW carebears, everyone sits in caerleon until its time to go.
    • BriarMoss schrieb:

      I wouldn't cap tokens if they're going to be rare though, to me HCE seems like retirement faming for players that already did their grind open world. It would be nice to be able to stock up tokens when you do your initial grind in the open world and then buy a hce set when you have spec and slowly burn your tokens as you have to grind a small amounts to respec for balance changes.
      This makes sense. My concern was that people would stockpile too many tokens then avoid the OW for weeks at a time. But if they do that, then they've earned it by spending so much time in OW in the first place. So, happy retirement!

      ixxxo schrieb:

      I would not change anything for part of the people (for which HCE is part of their activities that include open world activities) and would stop part of the community doing them and possibly leaving the game. I have no idea whether game can remain healthy with those player leaving (not considering pure player count only, as those people might be crafters, or gatherers, or market players, etc.).

      If it's absolutely unacceptable HCE being the ONLY activity in the game then rather than forbidding it, let's try to find ways how to make other activities more appealing. Brain is a creature of efficiency. If best fame/silver/whatever is in XY, don't expect it to devote time to Z if fame/silver/whatever is what they are after.
      Good points. HCE was probably introduced to cater to "carebears" in the first place, so requiring them to go to OW might make them quit. It seems that the original vision of the game was to be an "open world sandbox" though, so a compromise should be considered. IMO HCEs should complement normal FFing - not a total always-safe alternative.

      I wouldn't be opposed to a "compromise within the compromise." For example: Using the token system, but keeping the maps as well - BUT, the maps, as an alternative means to join HCEs, would be required by each group member who is not using tokens. When a party member uses a map to join an HCE, all other members would be limited to choosing that specific map (instead of choosing from the list if everyone is using tokens.) This would drive up the cost of HCE maps because more individual players would need them - but not wildly skyrocket because the tokens are the main source for starting. You also couldn't refund them. Driving up the cost/demand for maps wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, either. Maybe there could also be extremely rare tradeable items that grant some tokens on use.

      I also agree that OW dungeons should be buffed somehow. (Personally I'd especially like to see solo dungeons buffed.) And there should be some sort of system to help encourage PUGs in the open world. Right now, the lack of trust between players in different alliances is what pushes solo/PUG players to HCEs - possibly more-so than the fame/silver rewards or general safety. To me, it's less of a care-bear issue than a flexibility issue, but I think having more players in the OW is necessary either way.

      I think not everyone would quit - a good deal of them would discover that OW isn't so scary after all, and because HCEs are still accessible regularly (esp. if keeping maps) then keeping those 8.3 relic sets you don't want to risk losing is still very worthwhile.

      Edit: Also, consider that it's possible that more of the players who started Albion specifically for the OW PVP might return to the game if the OW becomes more active. There's two sides to that coin.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Tarukun ()

    • letwolf schrieb:

      dont need to funnel some players at some activity against their desire - they rather'd quit game. Better have HCE's AND lucrative OW activity - so each player can have what he want
      What exactly is the point of grinding HCEs if not to spec up for PVP? There's no progression raiding goal, and no trophy or achievement for completing highest-level HCEs - basically, there's no PVE goal in Albion, except to become more powerful at PVP.

      So we might as well do the grind while also participating in the PVP, rather than bypassing the entire purpose of the game only to gain an advantage at it.

      Again, with this suggestion (and especially the additional suggestion you replied to regarding individual HCE maps,) HCEs are still possible, and so are regular expeditions. So no one would be forced to enter the OW - just more encouraged to.
    • Neu

      Tarukun schrieb:

      This would drive up the cost of HCE maps because more individual players would need them - but not wildly skyrocket because the tokens are the main source for starting.
      I do understand what you are after and myself don't run higher HCEs really (I run usually 2-5), and for those, I'd say prices are perfectly ok. I was told higher maps (11+ ?) cost about 1 mil, not sure if this is still up-to-date information, but if it is, it's either

      a) also ok price for the outcome you are getting
      b) if it's not ok price (as in 'it is too low'), then they just need to nerf amount of silver you can get there or make such maps drop less to put it into balance

      To address fame part of equation - I believe we all agree HCEs need to be less profitable (both from fame and silver perspective) than OW fame but I'd really rather see boost to OW FF than nerf to HCE. I can easily get repair bill for 250k in 6.3 equip in low level HCEs (I am still learning), so I am loosing quite a bit. Yet, they are viable alternative (and much needed alternative as you ideally should have multiple ways of achieving your goal in sandbox) to break the grind, try something else or just fall back to more easily organized activity if you are solo / don't have regular group. Eg. you can join Anglia power FF groups which is nice but I assume risks there are much higher to be at loss, right? :)

      This game is like Donald Duck's Uncle - it uses full loot policy as an excuse to not give proper loot in PVE, it should be exactly vicee versa - exactly because you are in the risk of loosing your gear 24/7 (outside HCE for this one time), you should be richly rewarded for taking the risk. At least that's usual working approach of other full loot games. I get it they want to keep economy healthy but they need to take care to not make PVE boring as a result of that.

      If my perspectives are - take time to get to Anglia dungeon to maybe be killed while traveling there, or finding out spot is taken or killed after 30 mins there where I didn't really managed to earn enough FF to be worthy and enough silver/loot to replace my gear, is it strange I rather choose HCE?

      TL:DR: boost OW loot and fame, keep HCEs as they are.

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 3 mal editiert, zuletzt von ixxxo ()