Xbows:unused and plain bad skills

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    • letwolf wrote:

      - caltrops W ( that's single target! and too low damage and slow on that skillshot, it would be good if this reworked to AoE affecting many enemies )
      - knockback shot W (just crap)
      - lack of escape/dash/ some mobility skill on W
      - remove standtime on Exploding Shot Q please
      - autofire (Q skill) very weak dmg for what it requires ( standing still during all channel)
      - need another aoe Q skill that shoots bolt in straight line and does something different from bow's
      - exploding mine too long CD for what it does (and besides good idea on-paper, it used only at castles)
      - sweeping shot (Heavy xbow E), too low dmg/ too long CD for what it does (just weak version of Wailing Bow)
      - snipe shot (normal xbow E)... good on paper, but unusable in just any circumstance due to big red mark and ton of time for enemy to dodge/react/block that skill, and gigantic standtime
      - Caltrops : Agreed, the spell inst that much good, i wish they increased the damage of it at least, i can see the issue where is an aoe where you basically all your xbows in a Zerg make a line with caltrops, would be cancer, but still agree that it need some buff to it.
      - Knockback shot : Yes, it is trash probably never seen someone using this spell, its bad in every aspect.
      - Lack of escape: Well, that goes for "balancing" aspect that i always press SBI for. Almost every RDPS has some kind of protection W, and crossbow have also, but its the knockback shot, but we know... is garbage. Still dont know why they didint put the spell that the crossbow monsters has that jump backwards, you could basically just remove the slow or have the same slow as caltrops to not be cancer, but would be a great spell for xbow tree.
      - Removing standtime on Exploding shot: Dont really think standtime can do anything here, I personally think the standtime from it is pretty low, and compared to weapons that cast 'Qs', the exploding shot isnt bad at all.
      - Autofire: Yea, is super weak, i like someone idea to make you able to walk while channeling, can be really interesting to have that.
      - Need another aoe Q: I disagree completely here, shooting a bolt is like the bow 'Q', straight up copy paste, the Exploding shot is just good and even better than the bow Deadly shot. Also it would just be a shitty version of heavy xbow 'E' Sweeping Bolt.
      - Exploding mine: Totally disagree, Exploding mine is one of the shortest spells in the game, is so short that you can just use Eel Stew to increase your damage, and throw it when enemy is engaging and when you counter engaging, you having it ready again. Not only that weeping doest get reflected by demon armors that in some cases it makes even better than Siegebow. Not long time, we were able to see weeping on 5v5s, on choke maps, you would just throw and control the choke, and it really hurts, but xbows inst meta not because they suck, but there is thing totally more stronger. It definitely doesnt need any kinda buff.
      - Sweeping shot: Disagree again, heavy xbow is one of the best 5v5 weapons, and it has been for long time, is a weak version of Wailing? Of course it is, this weapon isnt supposed to be a ZvZ like Wailing Bow is, so comparing Wailing to heavy xbow is totally wrong.
      - Snipe shot: Well, i think everyone pretty much agree that shit spell is garbage, it sounds like the go to xbow for 1v1, but I personally still dont like it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Protheus ().

    • I'll highlight changes here I recommended before, as well as some feedback from these comments:

      • Auto-fire: Yesyesyes change it to be a channeled/toggle spell able to be cast whilst walking, maybe with a small standtime for 'reloading animation' to balance mobility/damage. Would open up much more build variety.
      • Snipeshot: Change to be a skill shot directional, that you can move around the direction whilst casting, with visible tell as to direction. This would allow for possible use in 5v5, as well as better open world use and overall just more enjoyable use.
      • Knockback shot: Either knockback needs to be increased, or the spell needs a rework. Having an instant, ranged interrupt is incredibly strong, but right now it simply cant be used. Would be interesting if the spell worked both ways, so it works instead on distancing the user and their target. Meaning if the target is next to user, the target will be knocked away, and the user would also jump back to meet the distance. Or if target is at max range, target would be knocked back, whilst user wouldn't.
      • Mobility: At this point I simply feel like every class needs some for of mobility on a W spell. Either through speed increase/dash/blink/cc/slow of target. Properly re-worked knockback shot could fix this for xbow.
      Hop on in to my Discord and Twitch ^^
    • Nice suggestions @Khladraven Yeah crossbow line has always been the sort of High Dmg Immobile Ranged Cannon of Albion in a way, (Most of its E -W spells you are Standing still to use, I.e snipe shot (Cast), Boltcaster E (Long interuptable Channel) W - Noise Eraser (Cast) long standtimes ofc, Back in the day this wasnt such an issue as the high dmg made up for this but nowadays Alot of the line besides siegebow e.t.c is simply mediocre damage with no mobility as other weapon lines have received buffs/tweaks over time whilst crossbow snipe has just been left to rot in the basket of useless weapons. if it has one of the longest cast time (2nd to only brimstone aoe by .5 second) and does less damage than brimstone to a single target why cant it hit abit harder. Its alot less damage than cursed 1h Which takes slightly longer to land, Dagger pair hits a tonne harder however is melee range/ Has Shadow edge/Dash /Very fast Cast (.4 second), besides buffing the damage and turning it into a slow cast one shotter with the long range, you could reduce range but either buff the damage or cast time or Make the animation abit less obvious, However if you wanna put in the work Khladraven's suggestions could be neat.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Asaroth ().

    • New

      even after the crossbow buffs on 10.04 autofire still sucks compared to the aoe Q explosive bolt.

      Auto Fire (all Crossbows)
      • Shot interval: 0.5s → 0.3s
      • Damage per Tick: 28.01 → 37.00
      • Explosion Damage: 67.22 → 89.00
      • Range: 11m → 13m
      lets do the math
      with 703 wip
      autofire: 5/3s channel time: 6*100 + 240 = 840 dmg
      explosive bolt: 276 * 2.5 [to match autofire 5s cd] + 66 *5/3 [autoattack dmg u lose with autofire channel] = 800 dmg

      so autofire
      - as a channeled spell
      - with cd 2.5 times the alternative
      + better dmg/mana cost on single target only
      -> deals 840/800 = 5% more single target damage ; 240/800 = 70% less aoe dmg

      than explosive bolts
      + an instant cast spell
      + dealing aoe dmg
      + low cd
      - worse dmg/mana cost on single target only
      -> which deals 800/840 = 4.8% less single target dmg ; 800/240 = 333% more aoe dmg

      looking at the numbers
      which spell would u pick for aoe? easy to answer
      which spell would u pick for single target dmg? well, actually ... who picks 5% more single target with way worse prerequisites over the safe dmg? besides aoe always rulez

      if pre reworked fire 2nd Q was instant cast and had better dmg it wouldve had the same issue ...

      edit: weapon used for testing was normal crossbow with cleric robe i think (doesnt really matter since the relative numbers dont change)

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Kayl ().

    • New

      Kayl wrote:

      even after the crossbow buffs on 10.04 autofire still sucks compared to the aoe Q explosive bolt.

      Auto Fire (all Crossbows)
      • Shot interval: 0.5s → 0.3s
      • Damage per Tick: 28.01 → 37.00
      • Explosion Damage: 67.22 → 89.00
      • Range: 11m → 13m
      lets do the math
      with 703 wip
      autofire: 5/3s channel time: 6*100 + 240 = 840 dmg
      explosive bolt: 276 * 2.5 [to match autofire 5s cd] + 66 *5/3 [autoattack dmg u lose with autofire channel] = 800 dmg

      so autofire
      - as a channeled spell
      - with cd 2.5 times the alternative
      + better dmg/mana cost on single target only
      -> deals 840/800 = 5% more single target damage ; 240/800 = 70% less aoe dmg

      than explosive bolts
      + an instant cast spell
      + dealing aoe dmg
      + low cd
      - worse dmg/mana cost on single target only
      -> which deals 800/840 = 4.8% less single target dmg ; 800/240 = 333% more aoe dmg

      looking at the numbers
      which spell would u pick for aoe? easy to answer
      which spell would u pick for single target dmg? well, actually ... who picks 5% more single target with way worse prerequisites over the safe dmg? besides aoe always rulez

      if pre reworked fire 2nd Q was instant cast and had better dmg it wouldve had the same issue ...

      edit: weapon used for testing was normal crossbow with cleric robe i think (doesnt really matter since the relative numbers dont change)
      Auto fire is not 3s channeling spell. There are 5 "pauses" between 6 hits (so it used to be 2,5s). Now it is 5*0,3s = 1,5sek.
      Also it is 5*37dmg (not 6) + 89dmg (in your example 5*100dmg + 240dmg). Last 6th hit is stronger.
    • New

      BesP wrote:

      Kayl wrote:

      even after the crossbow buffs on 10.04 autofire still sucks compared to the aoe Q explosive bolt.

      Auto Fire (all Crossbows)
      • Shot interval: 0.5s → 0.3s
      • Damage per Tick: 28.01 → 37.00
      • Explosion Damage: 67.22 → 89.00
      • Range: 11m → 13m
      lets do the math
      with 703 wip
      autofire: 5/3s channel time: 6*100 + 240 = 840 dmg
      explosive bolt: 276 * 2.5 [to match autofire 5s cd] + 66 *5/3 [autoattack dmg u lose with autofire channel] = 800 dmg

      so autofire
      - as a channeled spell
      - with cd 2.5 times the alternative
      + better dmg/mana cost on single target only
      -> deals 840/800 = 5% more single target damage ; 240/800 = 70% less aoe dmg

      than explosive bolts
      + an instant cast spell
      + dealing aoe dmg
      + low cd
      - worse dmg/mana cost on single target only
      -> which deals 800/840 = 4.8% less single target dmg ; 800/240 = 333% more aoe dmg

      looking at the numbers
      which spell would u pick for aoe? easy to answer
      which spell would u pick for single target dmg? well, actually ... who picks 5% more single target with way worse prerequisites over the safe dmg? besides aoe always rulez

      if pre reworked fire 2nd Q was instant cast and had better dmg it wouldve had the same issue ...

      edit: weapon used for testing was normal crossbow with cleric robe i think (doesnt really matter since the relative numbers dont change)
      Auto fire is not 3s channeling spell. There are 5 "pauses" between 6 hits (so it used to be 2,5s). Now it is 5*0,3s = 1,5sek.Also it is 5*37dmg (not 6) + 89dmg (in your example 5*100dmg + 240dmg). Last 6th hit is stronger.
      ure kinda right, i didnt use the correct mathematical way to write it, but 5 somethings per 3s? really? u shouldve noticed i mean (5/3) [seconds]

      anyway
      (5/3) seconds are 1.66 seconds, so more less 1.5 secons (i only watched the icon ingame, dont have further information, changes the result only marginally)
      according to the tool tip its 6 hits, the 6th dealing an additional package of damage which is aoe
      further testing (hitting a mob with said skill) + combat log shows its indeed 6 hits plus one additional which is aoe
    • New

      Do you even play with crossbow? Autofire used to be a skill that always got interrupted, now it’s damage got boosted and you can channel through all its duration. It’s way more reliable damage than exploding bolt (which is a ground targeted spell) so that explains why the latter deals more damage in theory.

      You should consider trying out the weapon before making us read all your bullshit in forums really... Crossbow is more than fine right now.
    • New

      In my opinion xbow is in great spot right now.
      ZvZ: Siegebow / Weeping Repeater
      GvG: I need to check out Heavy Crossbow and boltcasters again (maybe even regular Crossbow ;).. but for what I see right now Light Crossbow is doing fineeee.
      PvE: all of them maybe exept regular one and boltcasters (gr8 for HCE).

      GJ devs! Xxbow is viable for every aspect of content.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BesP ().