6 different ways to improve Rejuvenation gameplay

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    • 6 different ways to improve Rejuvenation gameplay

      My main gripe with Nature Staves is the actual mechanic of Rejuvenation stacks.

      I just don't like the "remove your own healing spell every 4th cast - or wait like a jerk until it expires." It doesn't feel right for a healing class.

      In my opinion, a healer should be able to step up their efforts in dire emergencies at the cost of burning your energy. Most importantly, a healer should never need to just sit there waiting while being unable to do anything while cooldowns expire or buffs wear off. AFAIK, other classes are always doing something, even if just auto-attacking for a moment.

      These ideas are about gameplay of the Q spell - NOT about fine-tuning and balance, buffing or nerfing. Any made-up numbers are just for a sense of how it would feel. (NOTE: I don't believe healers should be able to heal through EVERY difficult circumstance; only that they should be able to react to difficult circumstances by "trying harder." Healing is about triage, judgment, and reacting appropriately to the amount of damage being taken. It should not be about ramping up stacks and hoping it's enough while you watch the timer go down.)

      So, here are some different ideas to give Nature Staff users more active control over their bread and butter healing Q-spell:


      The current tooltip, for reference: "Heals allies for X per second for 8 seconds. This effect can be stacked up to 3 times. If it is reapplied on maximum stacks, all stacks are consumed and you will restore Y energy."


      1. "If it is reapplied on maximum stacks, all stacks are consumed and one new stack of Rejuvenation is applied."
      This is the most basic change. Rather than removing your own healing spell, you get a single-stack head start toward ramping it up again. The amount of energy returned can be slightly adjusted to balance. This way, you are not creating a period of zero healing, and you feel like you are always applying something - never removing.

      2. "If it is reapplied on maximum stacks, the duration of the effect is refreshed."
      This is the most obvious change, but supposedly it could be too powerful. I assume that's the reason it isn't in the game. The energy refund option should probably be removed -- in that case, you would manage your energy efficiency by not allowing stacks to expire and refreshing the buff as late as possible. The energy cost could be increased.

      3. "If it is reapplied on maximum stacks, all stacks are consumed, and a buff is applied which increases the healing received by Rejuvenation by 30% for 6 seconds."
      This would basically just give you a better margin-for-error when you're ramping your stacks back up from 0. It also adds a small amount of spammability to your Q spell. Don't worry too much about the "30%" figure or the buff duration - it should be adjusted by the experts, along with the energy refund. It could also be combined with option 2 above, so that reapplication will apply 1 stack with a small healing buff - probably of shorter duration.

      4. "If it is reapplied on maximum stacks, the duration of all 3 stacks are refreshed and a buff is applied which increases healing received by Rejuvenation by 20% for 3 seconds."
      This adds major spammability to the Q spell. The energy refund would need to be removed, and the energy cost of Rejuvenation would need to be significantly increased, and/or the base healing power would need to be reduced slightly.

      5. New stacks no longer refresh together. Instead, "Each application of Rejuvenation maintains its own independent duration. There is no energy refund. The buff icon displays the stack that is closest to expiring."

      This is my personal favorite. Rather than revolving around 3 stacks, you must maintain "rolling stacks." This offers spammability, but almost requires spamming Q to maintain constant max healing. This mechanic could greatly improve the Rejuvenating Mushroom spell as well. The mechanic could be applied in one of two ways:
      1. If it is reapplied at 3 stacks, only the stack that is closest to expiring is refreshed to its full duration.
      2. There is no limit to the maximum number of stacks - the number is limited only by the duration of the effect versus the cooldown of Rejuvenation. Healing power would need to be adjusted.
      6. "If it is reapplied on maximum stacks, the duration of all stacks is reset (up or down) to 3 seconds, and healing received from Rejuvenation is increased by 30%."
      In other words, you can basically apply the equivalent of a 4th stack, but you need to spam it every 2-3 seconds to maintain that maximum healing power - otherwise the buff falls off quickly. This is the epitome of sacrificing energy efficiency for emergency heals. This also keeps the option of removing your stacks before the next pull in PVE, after a 3-second delay, at least.



      Which is your favorite? Or do you like Rejuvenation the way it is currently?

      Post your own ideas for improve Rejuvenation gameplay.
    • I agree that the 'Q' nature mechanic is flawed.

      IMO, the 'Q' should be 20-stackable with small increments. Each nature stack adds 2% heal bonus to the 'Q', up to 40%. Thus the more the nature heals, the stronger that heal becomes. But the longer stacking means that he needs to choose targets more carefully about continuous stacks. Then a druid would not be able to 20-stack his whole team, but maybe one or two players, or spread those stacks more evenly among the whole team.
    • All of these ideas sound overpowered. To balance them you'd need to significantly raise the mana cost or lower the healing. I think it would be very tough to get the balance correct though and so people will complain about the new Q now being too weak or always being OOM (because secretly no one wants to manage their mana... they want to spam abilities).

      I think rejuvenation is good the way it is now because it requires skill to master. You have to know when to remove the heal or when to stop Qing. If you want to play a Q spammy healing class - play holy. There are lots of Q spammy mages, no reason to add another.

      If you want to be able to 'react' to damage - play holy. Nature is not about reacting to damage, it is about preparing for damage.
    • Lanyday wrote:

      All of these ideas sound overpowered. To balance them you'd need to significantly raise the mana cost or lower the healing. I think it would be very tough to get the balance correct though and so people will complain about the new Q now being too weak or always being OOM (because secretly no one wants to manage their mana... they want to spam abilities).

      I think rejuvenation is good the way it is now because it requires skill to master. You have to know when to remove the heal or when to stop Qing. If you want to play a Q spammy healing class - play holy. There are lots of Q spammy mages, no reason to add another.

      If you want to be able to 'react' to damage - play holy. Nature is not about reacting to damage, it is about preparing for damage.
      I have played both, and even in its current state, I prefer nature more than Holy.

      I understand the mechanic as it is now. I’ve been playing successfully (but casually) for a year. My problem is when the tank dies while I have 3 stacks up with PoN and E on cool down - max healing is up but there’s nothing more to do - no extra bit to give. All this while rejuvenate is inevitably about fall off to 0 healing or need to be refreshed.

      Like I said, it’s about gameplay and the fact that you must stop your own healing or ramp it up again constantly. The numbers would need to be balanced appropriately.


      Theat wrote:

      I agree that the 'Q' nature mechanic is flawed.

      IMO, the 'Q' should be 20-stackable with small increments. Each nature stack adds 2% heal bonus to the 'Q', up to 40%. Thus the more the nature heals, the stronger that heal becomes. But the longer stacking means that he needs to choose targets more carefully about continuous stacks. Then a druid would not be able to 20-stack his whole team, but maybe one or two players, or spread those stacks more evenly among the whole team.

      I like where your head is at, but my finger hurts just thinking about it! I’d love to see ability-queueing or hold-to-cast as well, but that’s a whole other topic.

      Maybe like 6 casts at 5% each with rejuvenate being refreshed. Then the healing variation is 100%-130%, rather than 0%-300% like it is now. You’d still be unable to spread max healing to the whole team.
    • Tarukun wrote:

      My problem is when the tank dies while I have 3 stacks up with PoN and E on cool down - max healing is up but there’s nothing more to do - no extra bit to give. All this while rejuvenate is inevitably about fall off to 0 healing or need to be refreshed.
      PvE is harder with nature than with holy. The nature Q allows for incredible mobility, no cast time, and better AOE than the holy Q, but it suffers when dealing with the burst damage a PvE tank will take. You can use armor pieces like graveguard helm and knight boots to mitigate this somewhat.

      Ability cool downs are a thing. Even a holy will have 'no extra bit to give' when generous heal is on cooldown and they've already use the W and E.

      What it probably comes down to is: are you willing to sacrifice significant healing power/mana efficiency/cd length for the ability to refresh your stacks instead of removing them? Again, all of your suggestions are incredibly overpowered if they don't come with a significant nerf to heal power/mana efficiency/cd length.
    • Tarukun wrote:


      These ideas are about gameplay of the Q spell - NOT about fine-tuning and balance, buffing or nerfing. Any made-up numbers are just for a sense of how it would feel.

      Tarukun wrote:

      The energy cost could be increased.

      Tarukun wrote:

      Don't worry too much about the "30%" figure or the buff duration - it should be adjusted by the experts, along with the energy refund.

      Tarukun wrote:

      The energy refund would need to be removed, and the energy cost of Rejuvenation would need to be significantly increased, and/or the base healing power would need to be reduced slightly.

      Tarukun wrote:

      Healing power would need to be adjusted.
      Seems we're in agreement, then.
    • tabooshka wrote:

      this guy wants to remove skill from nature and just spam q
      I just think it's a clunky mechanic, and a lousy measure of "skill" for your gameplay to revolve around counting the seconds left on your main heal's buff before needing to "spam Q" to ramp it back up every 8-10 seconds.

      It's not immersive and doesn't feel like a proper healing class. This is just my humble opinion, but I know I'm not the first to dislike it.
    • tabooshka wrote:

      this guy wants to remove skill from nature and just spam q
      +1



      Tarukun wrote:

      Seems we're in agreement, then.
      No. I do not want to sacrifice heal power/mana efficiency/cd length for stack renewal. I do not want to make nature a 100% Q spammy class.

      From your specific complaints it seems to me like you're trying to balance for PvE. How much PvP have you done with nature?

      Nature under-performs in PvE because in most Albion PvE (and especially HCE) the tank should have all of the agro and so the most efficient way to heal is to burst heal the tank. The nature Q excels in AOE healing and mobility which just isn't necessary in most PvE.
      - Are you okay with a 3-4s cd on your Q (but buffed heal power and renewable stacks) so you can only maintain Q stacks on one person? (sacrifice AOE for single target)
      - Are you okay with a 1s cast time on your Q? (sacrifice mobility for renewable stacks or increased heal power)

      While we're asking for ridiculous changes, how about we change flash heal to 1s cd instead of 1s cast time ;)
    • Lanyday wrote:

      While we're asking for ridiculous changes, how about we change flash heal to 1s cd instead of 1s cast time
      I would like to propose that every 4th flash heal, the caster throws a dead fish on the ground instead of healing. :P


      You make good points and I don't disagree with you that balance and some form of limitations are necessary. I'm only trying to offer 6 of 100+ alternatives that would make nature feel more like a traditional HoT class you'd expect in an MMO, where you still must anticipate incoming damage instead of reactionary burst casting.

      Yes, I'd even take lower or more varying healing output, and/or higher cooldown (assuming any change would also make Mushroom an even better alternative for AoE healing when necessary,) and/or higher energy cost in exchange for a HoT class that feels solid - not clunky.

      I'm trying to make it clear that I'm not asking for a buff - just a different style that doesn't just involve "canceling vs. waiting and watching."
    • From my perspective (I play druidic stuff in arenas mostly, but we can call it pvp), the very-very weak spot of nature healer is when your full stack Q is gonna expire and the guy on the other end is getting serious burst. Of course, if you still have PoN, if you still have E, and you still have GraveGuard helm heal, there's no issue.
      Yet it happens again and again, that focus changes, and in every match you will come to the point where these 3 Qs' are just going to expire. The target is on 10-20% hp, and you know, that by the time you manage to get 3 Qs on him again, he is going to inevitably die. This is the situation, where Holy just keeps Q-ing and has no weak spots. Losing teammate to this is frustrating, and it's something that just comes to coincidence, there's nothing you can do about it.
    • PVE is yet different story, I was told nature staff is okayish until HCE 7, maybe 8? But nobody is going to risk it anyway, as you really need strong single target burst heal.

      Maybe nature staves just need 3rd Q, that would be true single-target sustain heal (to be opposed to Holy burst healing abilities), as Rejuventation is semi-single target really (you can stack multiple people to max stacks easily).